<feed xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:foaf="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/"><title>norman.walsh.name: Comments on /2003/07/29/circle</title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://norman.walsh.name/2003/07/29/circle"/><id>http://norman.walsh.name/2003/07/29/circle/comments.atom</id><updated>2012-02-13T04:24:02.141407Z</updated><entry><title>Comment 1 on /2003/07/29/circle</title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://norman.walsh.name/2003/07/29/circle#comment0001"/><id>http://norman.walsh.name/2010/09/25/oauth#comment0001</id><published>2003-07-30T16:10:09Z</published><updated>2003-07-30T16:10:09Z</updated><author><name>Tim Berners-Lee</name><foaf:mbox_sha1sum>da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709</foaf:mbox_sha1sum></author><content type="xhtml"><div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
    <p>I would keep discusion of this in the www-tag@w3.org archive, except that the questions and answers are old. For the myth that this is solved by distinguishing between names and addresses, see &amp;lt;http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/NameMyth&amp;gt; .  For the reaon why URIs have to an information resource by any other name, see &amp;lt;http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/HTTP-URI#argument&amp;gt;.</p>
  </div></content></entry><entry><title>Comment 2 on /2003/07/29/circle</title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://norman.walsh.name/2003/07/29/circle#comment0002"/><id>http://norman.walsh.name/2010/09/25/oauth#comment0002</id><published>2003-08-06T15:01:36Z</published><updated>2003-08-06T15:01:36Z</updated><author><name>Ed Davies</name><foaf:mbox_sha1sum>da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709</foaf:mbox_sha1sum></author><content type="xhtml"><div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
    <p>I&amp;apos;d be interested to know how you justify the statement:</p>
<p>I think the assertion that a URI with a fragment 
identifier points to a dream or a car is absolutely 
unassailable. From a specification legalese point 
of view, that&amp;apos;s rock solid.</p>
<p>My reading of RFC 2396 is quite the opposite.  It says,
at the end of section 4.1:</p>
<p>The fragment identifier if only meaningful when a URI 
reference is intended for retrieval and the result of 
that retrieval is a document for which the identified 
fragment is consistently defined.</p>
<p>In general, I don&amp;apos;t see why something which appears to be
a reference to a part of or point in a document is any more
a candidate to identify a non-network retrievable object
than something which appears to reference a whole document.</p>
  </div></content></entry><entry><title>Comment 3 on /2003/07/29/circle</title><link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://norman.walsh.name/2003/07/29/circle#comment0003"/><id>http://norman.walsh.name/2010/09/25/oauth#comment0003</id><published>2006-12-22T15:00:51Z</published><updated>2006-12-22T15:00:51Z</updated><author><name>John Cowan</name><foaf:mbox_sha1sum>da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709</foaf:mbox_sha1sum></author><content type="xhtml"><div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
    <p>I think there is a strange, narrow, and counterintuitive path between Scylla and Charybdis that actually works.
</p>
    <p>
a) We first have to plant in our minds that HTTP GET never returns a resource, it always returns a representation of the resource.  If you get a 404, that doesn't mean that the resource doesn't <i>exist</i>, it means that no representation can be found.
</p>
    <p>
b) Consequently, doing a GET on <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ccil.org/~cowan">my home page</a> does <i>not</i> return my home page; it returns an HTML representation thereof.  Documents are just as "off the Web" as Shakespeare is; doing a GET on <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.nndb.com/people/640/000059463/frank-shakespeare-sized.jpg">this</a> does not of course return Shakespeare, and by the same token, doing a GET on <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml">this</a> does not return the XML Recommendation.
</p>
    <p>
c) That being so, when we use an URL as a name and attribute properties to that URL, it isn't clear whether we are attributing properties to the resource or the representation.  Shakespeare-the-resource has a birthdate and a height in feet and inches; Shakespeare-the-representation has a creation time and a height in pixels.  Shakespeare-the-resource had a wife and children; Shakespeare-the-representation has no descendants.  All is muddle?
</p>
    <p>
d) Almost but not quite.  It now becomes a meta-property of each <i>property</i> whether it applies to resources or representations.  The dc:creator property, for example, applies to the resource: it is the person who wrote the document, not the person who made this particular representation by copying it from somewhere else.  In this way we escape the trap and go free: it is part of the context of use for each URI whether we are making resource-based or representation-based use of it.  The topic-maps folks have always gotten this part right.</p>
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